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Do you know where the food comes from that’s served at your child’s school?

11 News Investigates has uncovered what parents across Houston are calling a disturbing answer and caught HISD trying to get  the city into not inspecting some of its kitchens.

While experts blast the district for the way it’s addressing critical violations, 11 News takes you undercover to see where they’re keeping your children’s food.

“They’re flirting with danger, flirting with danger,” Elizabeth Bugden said.

Bugden is a member of the National Coalition for Food-Safe Schools.

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What's the condition of the food HISD is serving your children?

“It’s critical to the safety of the children that those practices be stopped,” she said.

The coalition is funded by the Centers for Disease Control, and her job is to prevent food poisoning in schools.

“It’s very hard to believe it’s happening,” Bugden said. “I would stop all production and food service until we got a handle on the situation.”

Who is she talking about? The Houston Independent School District.

“Too many risks are being taken when it comes to serving the food to children,” Bugden said.

For example, HISD had a plan to reduce city health violations at their cafeterias. Was it by improving conditions at their kitchens? No. District officials were trying to get the City of Houston to simply ‘not inspect.”

“It makes me feel very scared,” says Holly Cortes, a food service supervisor at HISD. That’s because she says many HISD kitchens were having problems keeping food at safe temperatures.

11 News: “Are we talking 1 or 2 degrees off?”

Cortes: “No, we are talking 15 or 20 degrees off.”

That puts those meals in the danger zone for giving children food poisoning, something for which Cortes said City of Houston inspectors kept citing them.

She said it didn’t help that HISD had a hard time getting thermometers into the schools.

So what happened next?

A series of e-mails show that an HISD supervisor tried to convince the city to no longer require food service permits for nearly 60 HISD schools.

Why? Because no city permit means no health inspection from the city.

City inspectors “only know they’re there if there’s a food dealer’s permit,” Cortes said. “If they don’t know they are there, they’re not going to inspect.”

Some district officials understood that fact.

For example, the following is a transcript from an HISD food quality control meeting:

Employee: “We have a lot [of schools] that don’t have permits right now.”

Supervisor: “And I love that.”

Employee: “Why would you love that?”

Supervisor: “I love that because I know that if I don’t have a permit, that kitchen will not be inspected. And I don’t, I don’t have to worry about it.”

What did the Houston Health Department think of all this?”

“That’s not the right attitude,” said Chief Inspector Chirag Bhatt. “We don’t approve that.”

In fact, the e-mails show the District and the City were in a two-month discussion about the idea. However, after 11 Investigates requested information about the schools from the City including whether they had permits, the Health Department then told the district all of the schools would have to have a food permit.

HISD parents weren’t very happy that the District was even considering the plan.

“They are covering up the problem,” Yolanda Mendez said.

“It’s very upsetting,” Rebecca Stakes said.

But HISD had another method for hiding temperature problems from city inspectors, one that really worries Bugden.

“At any time, someone could get sick from eating the food,” Bugden said.

So what was the method?

Marissa Holland works for HISD as a food inspector.

“I think we’re taking advantage of the parents’ trust,” she said.

She said that when they found a school kitchen with food temperature problems, they would lower the bar.

How? HISD would tell those schools to start using the time-only or four-hour rule, a federal and state option that lets the school abandon checking food temperatures (to keep it safe). Instead, kitchens just have to time how long food has been out for serving, with a limit of 4 hours.

“I don’t think it’s safe,” Holland said. “I don’t think should be allowed.”

So why did HISD do it, especially in kitchens where foods had been found to be a dangerous temperatures?

It turns out that when a school was put on the four-hour rule, city health inspectors could no longer write them up for any dangerous food temperatures they found. That’s because inspectors have to judge a school by whatever safety control method the school adopts, whether its keeping track of food temperature or the time factor.

But Bugden says applying the time only rule at schools that are clearly having problems with the temperature of children’s food is simply wrong.

“There is a difference between trying to reduce a violation and ignoring it or overlooking it,” she said.

Shirley Brooks is the food services director for the largest school district in Colorado. She said what HISD is doing by not checking temperatures is “unprofessional.”

“You’re never really sure that you’re bringing food up to appropriate temperatures to make sure bacteria is killed,” she said.

Plus she says the cafeterias serve children who have weaker immune systems. As a result, she says she would never allow her district to use only the four-hour rule like HISD.

“As far as I’m concerned, it’s not a choice,” Brooks said, adding that taking temperatures of food is a must.

In fact, the Houston Health Department said of the 11 school districts they inspect, only HISD uses the time-only rule this way for its cafeterias. A check of major Texas school districts reveals the same: All of them use checking food temperature to keep kids safe.

But HISD has another way to avoid health violations: Their kitchens are warned of inspections ahead of time.

Cortes said HISD kitchen workers were tipped if a city health inspector was on the way. How did they know?

An e-mail sent by an HISD supervisor to a food service administrator is revealing. In it he tells her that when a city inspector comes by to call district supervisors so they can, “call other schools [in the area] to alarm them of a possible inspection.”

But the city’s chief inspector Chirag Bhatt said HISD, “should be more concerned with keeping the schools clean without the inspector coming in and reminding you.”

11 News has also found other problems too.

“The actual ceiling is caving in,” Holland said. She’s talking about the ceiling of the HISD warehouse where the district stores food before shipping it out to school kitchens.

11 News: “Does it have an impact on the safety of the food?”

Holland: “I think so. I know we’ve had refrigeration problems before.”

One city inspection noted that the entire building lacks permits for electrical systems, air conditioning and terms the roof problem as “major structural damage.” In fact, the building doesn’t even have a certificate of occupancy, because HISD can’t bring it up to code.

“We probably should’ve found a better place to store the food,” Holland said.

So what does HISD have to say about all of this?

“I disagree with that,” HISD spokesman Terry Abbott said.

HISD gave 11 News a 10-minute limit to talk to them, and they said they stand behind the way they use the four-hour rule.

“We don’t think the FDA and the city of Houston would allow it if that were the case,” Abbott said.

Then 11 News tried to show them some of our research, but Abbott wouldn’t look at it.

And that recording of an HISD meeting? Abbott didn’t want to listen to it.

11 News: “I’m gonna play this.”

Abbott: “OK that’s fine, but I’m not gonna respond to it on camera.”

And before 11 News could ask about the warehouse, Abbott ended the interview.

While HISD pulled the plug early the interview, they did later admit they’ve used the food warehouse for years without a certificate of occupancy or other permits.

But still, they say they’re comfortable doing so, because they claim they regularly inspect the building on their own.   They also say they are building a new food warehouse which won’t be ready until next school year.  HISD did not comment when asked how that may affect food stored this school year.

A spokesperson for the City of Houston’s Public Works department confirms to 11News that HISD has operated its food warehouse without a certificate of occupancy for nearly ten years.

Abbott said in an email later that the City is aware of HISDs planning and timeline to build that new warehouse.